tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26805450.post8765713629279109361..comments2023-04-01T14:57:13.361-04:00Comments on Matt Miller's Political Blog: Libertarianism vs TheonomismMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06350789459459006763noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26805450.post-46019888415863389902010-10-22T21:52:25.182-04:002010-10-22T21:52:25.182-04:00Jesse, your points are well taken, but of course, ...Jesse, your points are well taken, but of course, man is not nearly as capable of determining who has really repented and who hasn't. In all the examples you cited, it was God himself who made the decision whether or not to forgive or punish the sin. God does give instructions for determining whether or the sin was intentional, but does not give many commands to people not to spare someone based on man's judgment of their repentance, and never is such a command given to civil government. And remember, the only basis for forgiving someone is the cross, without that, repentance would avail nothing.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06350789459459006763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26805450.post-42643351486915740182010-10-04T08:45:14.377-04:002010-10-04T08:45:14.377-04:00I'm a little short on time, but I wanted to en...I'm a little short on time, but I wanted to encourage you to keep blogging as from the little I've read it seems to be interesting.<br /><br />If I were to comment on the current discussion, it might only be that as you would call yourself a Christian Statesman, I might call myself a Messianic one. In other words, I am a student of the hebraic roots of our common faith. So I might say that some of God's laws are not as they seem. For example, even crimes that resulted in death or injury under Mosaic law could be ransomed for they did not always require death. And those that did require death were not based on the action, but on the heart. For example as you mention the sabbath and picking up sticks as a violation, the context of that reference is that immediately prior God gives commands about ignorant sin and willful/presumptuos sin. I would suggest that the sin was not picking up sticks but the finger in God's face by picking up sticks. <br /><br />David was forgiven for both murder and adultery "under the law" because he repented (he did not continue as a murderer and adulterer). Or to make another example, God spared Ninevah when judgment was at the door and even Ahab was shown mercy because he repented (if only for a moment). <br /><br />So it seems the crime that needs punishing is not the action (how many kings did "right" in the sight of God without taking down the idols?) but the attitude about the crime.<br /><br />From that I would say, to be unrepentant one has to know the crime and continue in it. Thusly, how can someone who does not know God and does not know his "moral" commands be guilty of breaking them?<br /><br />Like you, I'm trying to figure out what laws should a righteous person persue in a secular government and people? I hope that helps as a piece of the puzzle.JS Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09950368196385816584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26805450.post-71926935864949244942009-09-17T20:24:12.696-04:002009-09-17T20:24:12.696-04:00Thank you for your comment. First of all, I never...Thank you for your comment. First of all, I never claimed to be a libertarian, but only a Christian statesman and a constitutionalist. Secondly, I am not saying that I would use force to prosecute such people, but I would be reluctant to put a stop to such laws which are already in place as they MAY be God's will. I believe that God is wiser than me, and he may have reasons for allowing these things to be. If I held a public office, and such issues came up for a vote, I might abstain from the voting depending on the situation.<br /><br />I don't care if I'm not labeled "ideologically pure". I want to do what God says, not man. <br /><br />You say "assuming they are not invading the rights of others". The question is, what is included in these rights? Does one have the right to live in a "clean" neighborhood? Does one have the right to walk down the street with your children and be confident that someone isn't going to expose themselves in front of them? Part of what it means to have true liberty is the right to live in the type of community that you want to live in (within certain limits, of course). I am not, of course, in favor of instituting these type of laws at the national level because that would be unconstitutional. But even most people who call themselves libertarian believe that children should be, to some extent, protected from these things. Where do you "draw the line" there? Is this a "gray area" for libertarians?<br /><br />It would seem to me, based on John 8:1-11, and other passages, that at that time and place it was not appropriate to punish for adultery. The ability (and presumably the authority) of the Jews to put people to death was taken away from them, apparently because of their disobedience. For them to have stoned that woman to death would have been hypocrisy. So this is another factor to take into consideration, one which may change with time and place. Whether or not the authority to put people to death or otherwise punish according to such Mosaic laws has been restored is interesting question. I tend to think not, but I'm not sure. I believe that the commandment to put people to death for murder is for all times and all places because this commandment was given to Noah (and presumably all of his descendants) Genesis 9:5-6.<br /><br />You said, "The problem is that there is no end to where it heads once you decide arbitrarily to prosecute some human decisions but not others. Who's next? Who else gets "prosecuted" for the harmless choices he makes? Who really are you prepared to coerce? That is the core question." The type of "choices" we are talking about aren't "harmless". The people who are engaged in these things are at least harming themselves and though they may not be violating anyone's rights per se (see above example), sin makes the world a less desirable place to live in. <br /><br />If you can find more places in the Bible which more clearly articulate what laws are pleasing to God, then I would be anxious to learn more. As I said, I don't have all the answers.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06350789459459006763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26805450.post-30518545184325042002009-09-14T21:36:06.311-04:002009-09-14T21:36:06.311-04:00Matt,
I just read your summary of Libertarianism ...Matt,<br /><br />I just read your summary of Libertarianism and some of your comments about why you may not support completely the libertarian view. I would argue from your comments that there is no philosophical way for you to be a libertarian.<br /><br />Although you never mention it, the true, distinguishing characteristic of a libertarian is that he or she believes there is never any justification for the initiation of force against others.<br /><br />Thus, you ponder about if maybe "illicit drugs" (which you don't define), prostitution, and pornography "should be prosecuted.' In other words, it is your core belief that it is okay to initiate force against people who have chosen to view or participate in pornography, use or sell illicit drugs, or use or participate in prostitution.<br /><br />You will have to come to terms with your religious views and how they make it okay to use force to control poeple who are otherwise minding their own business (assuming they are not invading the rights of others).<br /><br />There is no gray area here. Either it's okay to prosecute people for their involvement with these subjects, even if they have done no harm to anyone and everyone acted voluntarily or, it is not okay to prosecute them.<br /><br />The problem is that there is no end to where it heads once you decide arbitrarily to prosecute some human decisions but not others. Who's next? Who else gets "prosecuted" for the harmless choices he makes? Who really are you prepared to coerce? That is the core question.Ken Mateszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15620086178204226470noreply@blogger.com